Ulster Championship 2019 First Up It's Down 19th May

PatMustard

Well-Known Member
Can anyone tell me why down were able to bring on their replacement keeper straight away once their number 1 received his black card, but we had to wait until the next break in play to replace Jemar?

Keeper black card was probably expected, therefore replacement was ready to go? Ours wasn’t?

Plus, keeper for a keeper is an easy replacement. Our replacement maybe needed a bit of thought. Whether to replace like for like or bring in a defender.
 

Bo Darville

Active Member
Keeper black card was probably expected, therefore replacement was ready to go? Ours wasn’t?

Plus, keeper for a keeper is an easy replacement. Our replacement maybe needed a bit of thought. Whether to replace like for like or bring in a defender.

Haven’t watched the game over but at the time I thought McCabe was stopped from going on immediately by the linesman.
 

Throwball

Well-Known Member
The replacement for a player black carded can only enter the field after the next stage of play. The exception in rule being when the player black carded is the goal keeper.

On saying that their keeper spent so much time outfield he may as well not have been a keeper. A tactic McGeeney I believe introduced to GAA - I wish he hadn't!
 

PatMustard

Well-Known Member
The replacement for a player black carded can only enter the field after the next stage of play. The exception in rule being when the player black carded is the goal keeper.

On saying that their keeper spent so much time outfield he may as well not have been a keeper. A tactic McGeeney I believe introduced to GAA - I wish he hadn't!

Shane Curran? Was he not first?
 

Androim

Active Member
Can anyone tell me why down were able to bring on their replacement keeper straight away once their number 1 received his black card, but we had to wait until the next break in play to replace Jemar?
The carded keeper got up slowly and then ambled down the field to get his gear in the goals, and by the time he turned towards the sideline his replacement was ready to come on. Clever, what?
 

JoeH

Well-Known Member
Can anyone tell me why down were able to bring on their replacement keeper straight away once their number 1 received his black card, but we had to wait until the next break in play to replace Jemar?
The rule is that goalkeepers can be replaced immediately - outfield players have to wait until the next break in play before coming on. Simple as.
It's actually surprising how many club referees don't know this rule
 

MrMaguire2002

Well-Known Member
I've just read through all the posts since the final whistle on Sunday. Some excellent posts.

My thoughts on the game may be mixed but what mattered most was getting out of Newry with a win. Some people say this is the worst Down team in years. It is arguably every bit as strong as the team that made the Ulster final two years ago. For them Donal O'Hare was immense, Jerome Jonston, Gerard Collins and Ryan McAleenan were also impressive. As was Paul Devlin when he came on.

More importantly for us. There were a few negatives. Donaghy looked well off the pace of the game. For the first goal Hughes was in no man's land. Donaghy was in the FB position at the time. It was a poor performance by the both. Hopefully the next day both have a more assured performance. I'd still play Donaghy at 3. The biggest disappointment was Grugan. He should have been taken off much earlier. A lot of people ask why he is captain (myself included) but who are the alternatives? We lacked leadership the other day. The experienced men were our biggest concerns.

On looking at the game the other day leadership came from our two youngest championship debutants.

Jarly Og had an excellent game. He was an engine the whole game. He was however most much more effective after Mooney's dismissal. Admittedly he will get punished by better sides for carrying the ball into trouble but what an excellent championship debut. Bettered only by a fellow debutant - Rian O'Neill. O'Neill did miss some frees but I'll take a few missed frees all day if he's going to hit 4 from play and 4 frees. In O'Neill we have one of the best forwards in Ulster and soon very possibly in the country. Excellent performance.

I thought a previous post from someone from Crossmaglen was very harsh on Jemar Hall. I would start Jemar unquestionably for the Cavan game. A no brainer for me. Works so hard and although may not have had his best game for Armagh the other day for me he was decent and has been good right through the league campaign.

I would seriously consider dropping Grugan although it won't happen. Should he take dead ball early against Cavan and it goes like that he should be taken off. Nobody should stay on the pitch simply because they are captain. Hopefully the next day he improves. He needs to. Shields and Morgan should both start also.

Cavan Game:

Hughes

McKay Donaghy Morgan

Forker (McCabe/Vernon) Shields

If Grimley is fit along with Oisin O'Neill I'd start from midfield up with:

Burns Grimley

Campbell O.O'Neill Hall

Murnin R. O'Neill Clarke

Should the game come to soon for O'Neill I'd give Rafferty another chance. He did had a poor game the other day. I would drop Grugan but I cannot see it happening.

Tough on Kennedy to miss out.

Gavin McParland is a big miss IMO but we have a strong panel and hopefully we can make an Ulster final. It will be tough but we have every chance.
 
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DooReg

Active Member
The replacement for a player black carded can only enter the field after the next stage of play. The exception in rule being when the player black carded is the goal keeper.

On saying that their keeper spent so much time outfield he may as well not have been a keeper. A tactic McGeeney I believe introduced to GAA - I wish he hadn't!
Where exactly in the rule book is that exception listed? I've checked and it's not in the rule book.
 

DooReg

Active Member
The rule is that goalkeepers can be replaced immediately - outfield players have to wait until the next break in play before coming on. Simple as.
It's actually surprising how many club referees don't know this rule
It's surprising supporters feel that the rule exists when it actually doesn't.
 

niall1980

Well-Known Member
I've just read through all the posts since the final whistle on Sunday. Some excellent posts.

My thoughts on the game may be mixed but what mattered most was getting out of Newry with a win. Some people say this is the worst Down team in years. It is arguably every bit as strong as the team that made the Ulster final two years ago. For them Donal O'Hare was immense, Jerome Jonston, Gerard Collins and Ryan McAleenan were also impressive. As was Paul Devlin when he came on.

More importantly for us. There were a few negatives. Donaghy looked well off the pace of the game. For the first goal Hughes was in no man's land. Donaghy was in the FB position at the time. It was a poor performance by the both. Hopefully the next day both have a more assured performance. I'd still play Donaghy at 3. Not that McKay done too badly. The biggest disappointment was Grugan. He should have been taken off much earlier. A lot of people ask why he is captain (myself included) but who are the alternatives? We lacked leadership the other day. The experienced men were our biggest concerns.

On looking at the game the other day leadership came from our two championship debutants.

Jarly Og had an excellent game. He was an engine the whole game. Admittedly he will get punished by better sides for carrying the ball into trouble but what an excellent championship debut. Bettered only by a fellow debutant - Rian O'Neill. O'Neill did miss some frees but I'll take a few missed frees all day if he's going to hit 4 from play and 4 frees. In O'Neill we have one of the best forwards in Ulster and soon very possibly in the country. Excellent performance.

I thought a previous post from someone from Crossmaglen was very harsh on Jemar Hall. I would start Jemar unquestionably for the Cavan game. A no brainer for me. Works so hard and although may not have had his best game for Armagh the other day for me he was decent and has been good right through the league campaign.

I would seriously consider dropping Grugan although it won't happen. Should he take dead ball early against Cavan and it goes like that he should be taken off. Nobody should stay on the pitch simply because they are captain. Hopefully the next day he improves. He needs to. Shields and Morgan should both start also.

Cavan Game:

Hughes

McKay Donaghy Morgan

Forker Donaghy Shields

If Grimley is fit along with Oisin O'Neill I'd start from midfield up with:

Burns Grimley

Campbell O.O'Neill Hall

Murnin R. O'Neill Clarke

Should the game come to soon for O'Neill I'd give Rafferty another chance. He did had a poor game the other day. I would drop Grugan but I cannot see it happening.

Tough on Kennedy to miss out.

Gavin McParland is a big miss IMO but we have a strong panel and hopefully we can make an Ulster final. It will be tough but we have every chance.
You could fit Kennedy I’m in place of one of the two Donaghys
 

Patrick-Armagh

Well-Known Member
There's been some good analysis of the game from Sunday and it's been enjoyable to read. Brendan Donaghy has come in for some criticism and while some of it is justified, I also feel like his performance wasn't as bad as people make out. For the first goal, he and Hughes were at fault no doubt, but people also seem to miss the fact that Pat Havern has a good couple of inches on both of them and was simply first to the ball over them. There's not a whole lot you can do when someone is bigger than you and a high ball is dropping in. I think Donaghy should have done better with the second goal and there was a rash tackle in the first half that lead to an easy free. Other than that, I didn't feel that he looked off the pace. Blaine Hughes size is an issue and I expect Cavan will be seeing that and dropping some high balls into the square. I think with Hughes, his goal kicks and shot stopping is good and while the management have to recognise that he is small, they are willing to sacrifice size for his ability to pick men out with his kicks (and even this hasn't been consistent lately).

Just picking up on the Jamie Clarke situation, is there any particular reason why he won't play for them? I take there has been some falling out between the two parties? Is it not possible for him to transfer to another club down south where he spends a lot of time? It's far from ideal that arguably our best forward doesn't play club football. I saw someone mention the conundrum that is Clarke, in that Armagh seem to bend the rules and accommodate him in every way, as he is such a good player. If he were anyone else, he'd have been shown the door a long time ago. We as supporters can be fickle, as many of us get annoyed by this, but then swallow our own principles, as we know we are better with him than without him. But to contradict my own point, it's only football and there's more to life than it, so if the management and players are happy for him to play under such circumstances, then we as supporters should accept it.

I also read someone making the comment that a lot of players will not play for Armagh because of McGeeney. I'd be interested to know who (I accept that people may not want to talk out of turn or spread gossip). I've heard gossip, that McGeeney and a particular player whose career took him to Hong Kong (not sure if he's still there), had issues. Which is a shame, as he was someone I always rated him highly and feel that his searing pace is something that we have missed out on as team. He had that 'next level' speed that players like Jack McCaffrey, Caolan Mooney and Karl O'Connell have.

As for the comments regarding the long ball in to the forwards, I couldn't agree more. I think it's something that we should use more. Our first score on Sunday came from a long ball into Rafferty who won it and laid it off to O'Neill who scored. O'Neill then scored a great point from a long diagonal ball where he held the defender off, caught the ball with one hand and scored. Campbell scored a great point from long a ball across, which he won and held off some defenders before scoring. We all saw the damage that Murnin did from some long balls in. Hopefully this is something we can use more often, as we have the players to do it.
 

bcb1

Well-Known Member
On Jamie Clarke, there has been no falling out. He went to America last year and played in the championship out there. He decided that his time travelling had be satiated and he had his hunger back. See this interview...https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/jamie-...make-you-proud-to-be-a-part-of-the-gaa-109999

So Jamie came back and his transfer from the Longford club in New York to ourselves was complete on the 8th November of last year, if he had an issue with the club or committing to ourselves he had the opportunity to go to whatever club in Ireland he wanted. We had no control over where he wanted to play and could not prevent him from transferring to another club. He returned to his home town club so obviously we were excited at the prospect of him lining out with the likes of the O'Neills who were really making the step up and Cian McConville who had just had his breakthrough. To my knowledge nothing has happened that should have changed that position. As can be seen by this article no one knows why he has decided to do this so as a club we will move on.

https://www.the42.ie/jamie-clarke-crossmaglen-4644237-May2019/
 

Jamie's Coffee

Active Member
There's been some good analysis of the game from Sunday and it's been enjoyable to read. Brendan Donaghy has come in for some criticism and while some of it is justified, I also feel like his performance wasn't as bad as people make out. For the first goal, he and Hughes were at fault no doubt, but people also seem to miss the fact that Pat Havern has a good couple of inches on both of them and was simply first to the ball over them. There's not a whole lot you can do when someone is bigger than you and a high ball is dropping in. I think Donaghy should have done better with the second goal and there was a rash tackle in the first half that lead to an easy free. Other than that, I didn't feel that he looked off the pace. Blaine Hughes size is an issue and I expect Cavan will be seeing that and dropping some high balls into the square. I think with Hughes, his goal kicks and shot stopping is good and while the management have to recognise that he is small, they are willing to sacrifice size for his ability to pick men out with his kicks (and even this hasn't been consistent lately).

Just picking up on the Jamie Clarke situation, is there any particular reason why he won't play for them? I take there has been some falling out between the two parties? Is it not possible for him to transfer to another club down south where he spends a lot of time? It's far from ideal that arguably our best forward doesn't play club football. I saw someone mention the conundrum that is Clarke, in that Armagh seem to bend the rules and accommodate him in every way, as he is such a good player. If he were anyone else, he'd have been shown the door a long time ago. We as supporters can be fickle, as many of us get annoyed by this, but then swallow our own principles, as we know we are better with him than without him. But to contradict my own point, it's only football and there's more to life than it, so if the management and players are happy for him to play under such circumstances, then we as supporters should accept it.

I also read someone making the comment that a lot of players will not play for Armagh because of McGeeney. I'd be interested to know who (I accept that people may not want to talk out of turn or spread gossip). I've heard gossip, that McGeeney and a particular player whose career took him to Hong Kong (not sure if he's still there), had issues. Which is a shame, as he was someone I always rated him highly and feel that his searing pace is something that we have missed out on as team. He had that 'next level' speed that players like Jack McCaffrey, Caolan Mooney and Karl O'Connell have.

As for the comments regarding the long ball in to the forwards, I couldn't agree more. I think it's something that we should use more. Our first score on Sunday came from a long ball into Rafferty who won it and laid it off to O'Neill who scored. O'Neill then scored a great point from a long diagonal ball where he held the defender off, caught the ball with one hand and scored. Campbell scored a great point from long a ball across, which he won and held off some defenders before scoring. We all saw the damage that Murnin did from some long balls in. Hopefully this is something we can use more often, as we have the players to do it.
I remember a lot of talk about an incident with said Hong Kong based player & the manager but also heard when his departure was imminent the manager offered him the captaincy as a carrot to make him stay. Now although this could be mere hearsay it was def a known that the management wanted him to stay. My understanding is that he is still in Hong Kong working for a world renowned financial institution...obv making a great career for himself.
 

MrMaguire2002

Well-Known Member
he means Plunkett Donaghy ;):rolleyes:
I've edited it. Just after watching the whole game back again. McKay struggled. Donaghy at FB and McKay in on of the corners. Not sure who to put in at CHB. Possibly McCabe or Vernon. Changes will be made throughout the game. So it will be interesting to see the changes to the starting 15 on Sunday.
 
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